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I have been trying to figure out how to make Bitcrystals playing SoG.

One way is to set up your computer to mine bitcoin (article on this later) convert to bitcrystal and buy cards offered for sale at the market in the Book of Orbs.  These can be later sold at a profit as the price of bitcristal increases over time or of course the demand rises because more people know about and play SoG.  It will happen!

Now we can also become a player or partner if someone wants to sell their spot.  This gives access to new cards and the ability to set up an on line store, if you buy the cards too.  There is a note about this in the forum but I don't have the link at my fingertips. (see below) It is a good write up from @Seb_degraff

I understood that we could work in game to build, craft, fuse in game cards into Blockchain cards which can be posted on the Book of Orbs for sale.  OMG - this is a lot of work.  Now I know why cards are so expensive.  I think this is correct and reasonable because it takes a lot of cpu cycles and hours of game play to make a blockchain card.

From what I can tell not all cards can be quad fused.  I was working on this one (for fun and to learn)

591339bee05ea_FusedShipBuilder.png.4db92da8d96cdf9a948b3a2c859c9073.png

He started as a ship builder but changed professions, never mind that for now.  The message on the card is: "Card is at maximum level and evolution."  Aww spent a lot of time and crystals building this guy. 

So maybe not all cards can be quad fused.  Is there a rule? 

We see from research that it can be done.

quadfused.png.559e28acff5608812518363c3da8193e.png

I have been working on a 'Life Fruits Grower', great card to have on the team, but it is a lot of work.  Right now I am saving to level +120

then I will need to do the same for three more of these if and when I get them.

lifefruitsgrower.thumb.png.ad24e3830b0fb85ab3b78d7fd643d348.png

Help me with the math  (5+15+30+60+120) * 4 = 920 plus more once we get to the top (I presume like another 230)

Say it becomes blockchainized at the 920.  Today BCY is .4 USD so we are looking at a $368 USD card.  Wow.  Presuming someone is willing to buy this card.  and

Provided we could get four of these to fuse (rare? Epic? Legendary?) not going to happen any time soon.  We need to be able to buy/trade regular in game cards too.

Lets just say for example that my level 17 is 27 stamina.  I get to play against 'The Prince of Ice' (6) or 'The Purple Dragon' (7) four times.  Maybe I pick up a little over 100 each game.  One new random card per game.  If we are lucky we get a rare (that we already have duplicates of can crystalize 1/5 so lets estimate 4 regular and 1 rare or about 11 crystals per stamina fillup.  I think the clock allows refresh about 1 in ten minutes or maybe 6 an hour (not got this quite figured out yet)  I can get full up maybe 4-6 times a day.  Being optimistic lets say 5 * 11 or 55 crystals a day.  Okay there are opportunities to watch videos and pick up 5 more stamina once in a while.  Lets say +11 crystals for watching the advertisements (some of which are kind of interesting actually.)

Back to the numbers 920 crystals for a quad fused card / (55 crystals per day + bonus 11) = 13.939393939393...  Call it two weeks.

Yes this is guess work and estimation on my part.  Two weeks of solid play not wasting any stamina for a blockchainized card.  Humm, $184 a week $26 USD a day.  Take in to consideration that we are not playing 24/7 but maybe 5-10 minutes every three or four hours that is not bad something like $3 an hour while playing.  Hey, what can you say about being paid to play?

Which cards are eligible to become blockchain cards?  Is there a way to tell in advance? Or is that part of the fun of playing SoG?

To put it another way, which cards can be quad fused?

I know the numbers are messy and I may just be confused about how this works.  Please don't quote me on any of this, I've just been thinking and wondering. 

Okay I am going back in game.  At least having to wait for stamina to rebuild gives us a chance to do other things, chores, eat, sleep, etc.  I say if you do your work you get to play.  I use SoG as a reward for getting other things done.  Now? Git back to work.   

Peace

 

Edited by Eddy
I was trying to add a link but it is being iggish
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Okay, I have been giving this some more thought.  I think am more confused than quad-fused.

I made the assumption that there was some relationship between crystals in the SoG game and Bitcrystals in the real world. Bitcrystals are used for the Book of Orbs BoO (and maybe other things?) The bitcrystals BCY comith from bitcoin which can be converted into USD and other currency.  So at any given time we can figure out the price/value of bitcrystals.  I am not sure this is directly related to the crystals in the game.  I think we can say what the current value of a Gem is because gems can be purchased with bitcrystal, 800 gems /100 USD when SoG first launched.  I make it about 12.5 cents for a gem so stamina refill costs a quarter not unreasonable and about what we paid to play a game at the arcade, many years ago.  I only refill when my stamina is empty (or very near) and I am working on quests.  It is nice to be able to continue play to reach an achievement or goal I set for the day.  Thanks for giving us that option.  If you are cheap you can wait for stamina to refill but progress is, shall we say, slow.

If there is a connection between in game crystals and BCY or BCT or USD I have not seen it, yet.  This would change the calculation above.  Say the in game crystals were 40 to 1.  This would bring our $368 card down to earth at $9.20.  This conceptually makes more sense to me but I know next to nothing about the value of electronic in game assets, like skins, weapons, etc.  I am old school and remember working, moving rocks to build retaining walls for $1.25 an hour or $10 a day.  Yes, I am that old.  I make that much now mining bitcoins with a GPU miner that just sits and spins.  Okay there is some electric usage but it is evident that a dollar does not buy what it use to.  Who knows what tomorrow will bring.  Yea, $13 a pack for cigarettes on the street in NYC.

Does anyone have an idea about how to value in game crystals? 

I expect the rate we can collect crystals increases as we play more and get better cards for our team, increase our stamina and make better choices about our opponents, regular, boss or challenge.  At higher levels it wouldn't take two weeks to build a blockchainized card.  Ha ha, I wish my guess is since we have to have and level up multiple cards it could take quite a bit more game play to get.  Even then it will be cards we get by the draw or dumb luck if we buy them at the store and we don't have much to say about which hero or hero's we develop.

Anybody know the optimum path?  Tell us what you do to maximize game play.  Yea yea, play more and win!

If people know how to make money playing SoG then our customer base, players, users (whatever you call us, noobs?) will grow.

If you can help me connect the dots, please do. 

Thanks

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Dear Eddy, I do not account any value to the in game crystals apart from game value for upgrading cards (and thus secondary value to create blockchain cards one day). I think that a quad fused legendary or epic which is blockchainized will have a certain value for trade. I assume this is not enough to actually earn money with it. I think that's also not the intent economy wise. It might be a nice side effect.

Without goind into detail on all the points you mentioned, I want to say two things:

when you make your calculations, the hardest part is always to know how these assets and currencies will be valued in the future. Here we have a complex system. We have BTC, BCY, and cards. Now if you wan to know if you made proffit you have to look at the whole thing. If you buy a SATOSHICARD today, it might go up significantly in BCY but still down in BTC. Wile there were certain good investments in the Cryptoland, most if not all have performed weaker than just buy and hold bitcoin. E.g. when I bought some miners, they were a good investment calculated in USD. Unfortunately I payed for them in BTC and only mined about halve the BTC I payed for them. I regularly spend BTC hoping it wil have been a bad investment in retrospect. This on the other hand means that what I keep appraises and I fulled the whole economy and only thus made the increase of the rest possible. So calculations based on today's trade values are good indicator but no one knows in the end. Also Everdreamsoft has all the freedom they wan to change the game economy. However, they can't influence who owns which blockchain assets, but they can massivley influence the value of all of these. I tend to try to invest in things I like. So I have some SOG cards. I expect that to be statistically a worse investment than keeping BTC but I can use these and enjoy a game and foster a whole new economy.

 

If you still mine BTC on a GPU, please stop. It's not even remotely worth it. In fact the security it provides to the network is in my opinion much less valuable then the environmental consequences. If you want to continue mining BTC with a GPU non the less, find an altcoin that uses some algo wich is more GPU firendly and then trade for BTC on ShapeShift or so.

 

Edit: Oh an in my experience all cards can be quad fused. Be aware quad fused means 2 fusions (or actually 3) to get there. There is a guide on this somewhere: http://bitcrystals.com/img/divers/spellsofgenesis_gameplay_and_cards.pdf

Edited by BenRPG

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Hi @BenRPG

I have been watching your play.  Well, your place on the leaderboard. You seem have it figured out.  I agree we do some things for fun, pleasure, to kill time or just because we like it.  I was looking for a replacement to solitaire so you can imagine how SoG seems complex.  Thanks for the link, I had seen that document it is a good visual explanation if a little dated.

I was trying to figure out how to sell Spells of Genesis.  What would a typical player have to do to make a few dollars or fraction of Bitcoin?  What does it take to make a blockchainized card and how much would or could it sell for, today.  Yes, you are absolutely correct in your assessment and I have been known to make some bad investments or decisions (if you will) in my life, from time to time.  Do you know anyone that needs or wants about 30,000 Minkos?  A childrens game I played in Japan in 1967-1970.  It has it's roots in martial arts.  I even thought about making a few of the peel and stick ones up with SoG cards to see how they look. I still think there is something there but lack the marking expertise crushed my dream of sharing this with everyone. Thing is, for me.  It is not just about the money. Of course my now x-wife never understood that.  Maybe it is me.  Marketing is a challenge.  Timing too.  One thing I have is bad timing.  It is what it is.

Why do you say GPU mining is not worthwhile and to stop?  I made a little GPU miner that gets like $7-$10 a day.  I run my PC at night and turn on the gaming machine upstairs to grind away with Nicehash when it is not in use.  The GPU miners pay their own electric bills and then some.  I pick up, at the moment $17 a day that is $510 a month I didn't have.  I agree CPU mining is a waist of time.  I actually learned about SoG from the guy I got my first Bitmain Antminer from a couple of months ago.  Today in the bitcoin world everything seems slow, the global rate is down but my minions are doing $67 a day.  I never had minions before.  Yea, the electric bill is high but they more than cover the running costs.  Yes, the ROI is like 8 months but that was before the price of Bitcoin jumped from $1250 in March to $1762 now.  I try to hold on to all the BCT that I earn but have to sometimes take some and put it toward the electric bill.  I also moved a little through Poloniex to get BCY so I could get a couple of SoG cards to play with and populate my BoO.  I agree it is kind of an expensive hobby.  I know Nicehash takes a 3% cut but they manage the algorithms and seem to be reliable about remittance.  I figure that if and when I get my investment back I will be doing good.  Who knows we might even do better than that. 

I have my degree in CS and Info Systems, worked as a computer specialist and did some consulting on the side so the computer/miner setup and installation of new releases is not that big of a deal.  The assembly language programming, hashing algorithms, linked list, etc. and all that math I had to take, years ago, are the tools that are being used in the blockchain and crypto currency arena.  It nothing else it is a good mental exercise to try and figure out how this can be used in the future.  There is a lot of reading to do to and it gives me something to research and study.  Like you say it is a complex system.  I think it is cool but I am  a little weird, I guess. 

What are the ' the environmental consequences' you mentioned.  I was looking at if mining would or could feasibly pay for a solar roof.  That would balance/offset the electric use and certainly be more environmentally friendly.  At some point I will have to get a new roof anyway.  Elon Musk has a new shingle that looks fabulous.  Too bad they don't use the full spectrum yet and the price is high but I may have SolarCity out so see if the roof has a proper orientation and how watts they think I can generate.  50K would likely be better invested in BTC.   It would be nice to not depend on the grid and get the roof done in the process.  Mining is not all bad, I can't wait for winter because the antminers generate enough heat to keep the whole hose toasty if I turn them in instead of venting them outside.  I thought mining was doing a service for the community, including SoG.  Enlighten me.

I really appreciate you sharing your take on things.  I don't have anybody to bounce ideas off of or a mentor to guide me. All the guys I knew (my Dad) and men I respected, who fought in WWII at D-day, were in the OSS or in Viet Nam  are all dead.  They probably would have said not to mess with bitcoin mining or SoG but they grew up in a different age.  As a matter of fact I guess I am old now too.  I remember going to use the out house when visiting relatives in the country.  Kids now days have it easy, indoor plumbing. They don' t blink an eye at the cost of equipment,  spending hours and hours playing computer games (I had an 8088 4.77 Mhz with Amber screen, later a 80286 8-12 Mhz switch able with CGA graphics and I was very happy.  I can't say much.) or money on skins and in game stuff (not even assets like the blockchain cards)  so I feel like I am at a bit of a disadvantage.  I had to work for a living, save, invest, raise a family, pay bills .... and we know how all that works out.  I don't want to ruin the surprise for those who have yet to follow that path.  Good luck.  No regrets.  We do the best we can with what we have.  I am just trying to figure out how this works and leave a bit of documentation for the next guy or gal. 

I was making fun about quad fused versus confused.  Yea, cards can become quad fused but not all can become blockchainized.  It is my understanding that some in game cards being fused can become blockchainized.  Or am I mistaken.  I am working on scarigas will it be able to be put into the book of orbs some day?  It only has a pink star.  I am a little slow on the up take, you know special Ed.

bc1sm.png.7d4ed76acf83470c59ca03b72c6c1f63.png

It is a lot of work to level up cards.  People who are new to SoG should know how hard it is but that it can be done.  Or maybe not, it might be part of the fun to bring cards up through the ranks just to build a better team.  My game play certainly has improved leveling up and fusing cards.  Card management is part of the game.  Sorry to be so wordy, it's late.  My stamina is restored so I am going back in game and then to bed.  Thanks for your reply.  You gave us a clue:  quad fused legendary or epic may have value for trade.

Sincerly

Eddy

 

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@Eddy About the mining: I was under the impression that you mine Bitcoin (SHA256) directly with your GPU. thise Nicehash service you are using is exactly what I mentioned above. They probably don't mine SHA256 with your GPUs but something else and pay you in BTC. All good. It seems aocu also have an Antminer and that will be used for SHA256 then. You know back in my mining days we would still run our own full node to mine Bitcoin. In the beginning there were also no pools so everyone would solo mine. Yes mining is good for the community. I was just refering to mining SHA256 with a GPU. You are at least 200 times less efficient (J/Hash) then a good ASIC miner. I wanted to calculate it for you but this list doesn't even feature the GPUs any more (used to).Therefore I would have valued the environmental impact (energy consumption vs. security of the network) as worse than the benefits.

You seem to be about the age of my dad. I love that you get into this all. My day was a computer pioneer at times but this whole Bitcoin thing he never thought is worth to check out. He is into real estate wich is also a wise choice. Good my mom thinks differently and always thinks what the young ones do is the best and will be the future. Good for her as she got in at 70$. Meanwhile she sold some to get all her $ back and now she sits on a stash of "free" Bitcoin. I appreciate you learning all this. It is a paradigm shift. I sometimes miss the old days were transactions were in fact "free" and confirmations were faster. We really have to solve this scalability issue as fast as possible.

I already answered regarding blockchainization in the other thread. Not a lot is know, as it seems.

 

Edit: Oh and regarding the leaderboard, I think it doesn't say anything really. Just how much you play and to a certain extent also how many gems you bought as you just need to pay 2 gems for stamina every now and then if you want to grind away. Also represent to a certain extent how much money you dropped on blockchain cards. After all, these free apps all have the concept pay-to-win. What I like about this one is that the people who hold large amounts of BitCrystals (I don't) profit along the way. On the last burn report the in game purchases also counted towards the crystals to be burnt.

I am so much looking forward to multiplayer. I also wonder how they are going to implement it.

 

 

 

Edited by BenRPG

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Good Morning @BenRPG

Yea, I got to thinking about your note and that I did not specify the type and method of mining.  Mining Bitcoin SHA256 with a PC or GPU mining would be futile.  Yesterday, I read Shitoshi's white paper and really liked the way it was presented.  Amazing how that little bit of 'C' code can essentially change the world. 

Considering where our computing power was, say in 1977, 40 years ago and what we have today it is mind boggling.  I took my first programming course in H.S. and had a one day turn around agreement with a company 15 miles away. We would code on cards and drive them up, pick up the runs from the day before and bring them back.  A single character incorrect and the job would fail, costing a whole day.  You can imagine how exciting it was to get a paper tape reader or in college a year later a DEC writer terminal and UNIVAC 1108.  Those were the days.  Summer school I took a course for JCL and IBM assembler, COBOL programming etc.  My programs were a box of cards 18 inches long and our Prof had us put our initials in column, what was it?  72?  On ever card.  The kids now days have access to tools we didn't even dream of.  Oh, but I digress.

I admit to being new to Bitcoin and mining.  Like SoG I am trying to put the pieces together.  You can laugh if you want.  The first couple of days, not knowing anything about nodes it seemed like a good thing to do.  Do you know it takes all day, 24 hours, to download the blockchain and no small amount of disk space.  It gave me a lot of time to 'read all about it.'  It was then that  I realized there were other options. What started out as something of a fiasco turned out to be a good learning experience.  I read on one of the bitcoin websites that nodes may be recommended for companies that intend to have a volume of transactions that that can improve the throughput.  Great idea but I am not sure how routing and prioritization works.  Being ancient as I am, I keep having these flashes of insight, ah ha moments.  Once in a while I get the feeling that the bitcoin environment incorporates a number of techniques developed over the years.  This is kind of a maturing of our process.  Do you know anything about network protocol, packet switching?  Checksums?  This feels like a grown up version combining hashing, lists, tree traversal algorithms, cryptology, etc.  It feels elegant, simple is good.  In my experience anyhow.

lol, yea parents are funny.  Thing is kids are too.   I think if you have an aptitude for something that you, your parents, friends, myself, whom so ever should cultivate it. Life is to short not to enjoy what you are doing and who is doing it to you. 

Paradigm - great word use.  I had no idea what that meant until I had training at work.  Remember to help people accept and understand these changes we have to WIIFM.  Don't have to but in my experience it sure helps swallow a, sometimes, bitter pill.  "What's in it for me?"  WIIFM

I like the way you write.  Ma and Pa kettle are maybe not so whacked as the all knowing young uns sometimes think.  Of course there are always exceptions. Yes I guess I am getting a little long in the tooth.  But like they say in Monty Python's Holy Grail, "I'm not dead yet."    Well that and "She's a witch! Burn her ... burn her"

Solutions for scaling are in the works.  I think it will be a number of contributing ideas and some tweaking (not twerking) that will give us all a workable solution.  I agree sooner than later is better.  I had a hard time figuring out the SegWit, kept thinking Segway.  Management by committee can be protracted.  A phrase that I always liked, because I have been there is that, Bitcoin (in this example) is on the bleeding edge.  Not an easy place to be and others benefit, even profit, from your work.  But that being said I think the lead developer gets to make decisions, craft new solutions, drive the industry, if you will.  Kind of like explorers.  I like a challenge.  SoG is that way.  I still get spanked by the "Giant in the Moutain" if I am not paying attention or have poor spell placement.  I keep trying.

Your observations about advancing on the leader board are spot on.  Well, not how many Gems you buy but how many the player spends.  And when.  I got a few to support the SoG effort but kind of save them for when I have a daily quest, run my stamina to zero and am working on a card or just want to play for fun.  This way I can.  25 cents ok or .80 USD isn't too much if I can get to where I want to bee.  A damn cigarette is .35 so the price structure is not unreasonable.  I am trying to compute the play time to make a blockchain card and figure out if I were a young adult without a big bankroll how to turn this to my advantage.  I think running a GPU mine on my gaming machine at night would net maybe a few bucks a day.  A person might be able to get, as you say a couple of cards from the book of orbs BoO within a month.  Yea, ask the parental units. But if my kid came and wanted to use a little electricity to earn bitcoin to support their gaming habit I would be all for it.  Better than just handing out $$$.  But that's me. I am fascinated that my PC will pay me back, in time, when I buy a new and better video card.  My equipment never did, and that crap was expensive. You would learn about bitcoin wallets and money changing, exchanges perhaps, supply and demand.  Wow, there is a lot behind SoG.  Part of what the forum is for is for us to share our feelings and insight as it relates to what we are doing here.  That, my friend, is a pretty broad brush.

The developers have been very proactive about my bug reports and suggestions.  I was so happy when they linked my profile to the leaderboard. Now it jumps to my place in line, no more wallowing in pages and pages of players.  Though it is pretty cool to see new people come on board.  That was my suggestion and it is not often that one gets to add value to a game or system.  Thanks development team.  They also work spelling or bug reports.  Not that they can always fix it right away or adopt our ideas but hey they are a great team.  Put in suggestions and report defects.

Note for SoG developers: @Seb_degraff

There is one kind of troublesome issue with not getting paid 5 stamina after watching a video (advertisement.)  I have been thinking about the trouble capturing the error.  Intermittent ones are sometimes hard to work.  I was thinking about recommending that people who are active in testing and debugging be given a option for enabling the log.  We could keep a clip of the activity in a log before leaving the game for ad and upon return.  It may not show the issue but we could record events and if we return in game and do not get the promised reward can click a button to send or capture and send side band this portion of a log.  Developers would see a number of instances across players and may be able to see a timing issue, common problem android or ios, particular ads with small buttons, etc.  It is just a thought.  It is tool I would support and use.  My suggestion is to bind it to a Change Request tracking system so that all defect reports, suggestions, etc can be worked.  Part of the battle is gathering metrics. I suspect the user community is quite willing to do that for us.

At one point in pre season there was a link for guilds.  I think that will return.

I think I saw a button for multi player at one point in the pre season.  In my version it was not enabled.  Developer and testing is my guess.  I hope it is us against the machine not us going head to head, because I suck.  But yea, my bet would be that a multiplayer choice is not, as my electrician says, "a far away story."   It will come soon enough.  I'm still trying to make a better team and not get spanked by giants, purple dragons, etc.

I would really like a dungeon designer.  A maze maker.  Something where players can develop a set of screens or even add to the story line.  I have a story to write about the mines.  Everlasting Snow, the messenger, history and lore from days of old.

I always wanted to play a game where we own part of the world.  Give a plot of land to work and defend.  Wooden walls, stone, spikes, moving crushing pincers an such designed by the player to challenge other players.   There would have to be a way to keep ULTRA SoG players from crippling the little guy but even set it up so that the state pays reward if a player successfully attacks our stronghold and wins.  Maybe if they loose then they pay a portion of the stamina to the defender.  One could even set up a blockchain to record every encounter and result.  We, players might become friends and allies, guilds might combine these bolt holes to form a guild structure, fortifications, towers at advanced level.  If you have cool challenges more players visit your facility.  Make in game money, buy trade cards, build and add to fortifications etc.  Even a baby simple set of building blocks could be fun.

It's just a thought.

Ty btw for the correspondence.  It gets me to thinking and who knows, it is like mining we might just step into something valuable.  A real gem.

I think that part of my problem is I associate crystals in the game with BCY in the real world.  Say they are .50 USD each.  In my mind when I add to building and fusing cards I think  oh I won 10 crystals ouuuu $5 or level up 5+15+30+60+120 ouch $115  that does not even account for fusing.  Anyhow it is a fun game to say oh I made 50 crystals and pretend it is $25 for playing today.  Lucky me.  ha ha

Play more

Have fun

Tell a friend


 

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7 hours ago, Eddy said:

Like SoG I am trying to put the pieces together.  You can laugh if you want.

Would never.

7 hours ago, Eddy said:

Do you know it takes all day, 24 hours, to download the blockchain and no small amount of disk space.  It gave me a lot of time to 'read all about it.

Welcome down the rabbit hole. I read about this since 2011 and I think I do understand things. However others things I totally don't. The more I know the further this universe expands.

7 hours ago, Eddy said:

Monty Python's Holy Grail, "I'm not dead yet."    Well that and "She's a witch! Burn her ... burn her"

Love it.

7 hours ago, Eddy said:

Solutions for scaling are in the works.

Problem seems that there are too many. Maybe even too many good ones. I talked to another guy at a bitcoin meetup about the block size. He told me that he is for 1mb limit and that otherwise bitcoiners like him (and me) would no longer run their full nodes cause of ram and HD requirements. This might be true. I think that

a. Bitcoin would be doomed and would not exist any more if it was solely based on people doing good deeds.

b. The incentives within the hole system are set so well, that we can have no limit at all. I am not a bitcoin tech and I am not vouching for this as the solution to this debate, but I believe it. There will be a trade off in the magic triangle between fee total, size and network latency. I also understand that this in a way means, that the solo miner behind a 56k modem in Kapkupistan will not be able to fairly participate. As a miner without own node it doesn't matter. This thing is getting professionalized. It hurts to say, that when I looked at bitcoin way back from just after its total infancy I always considered scaling the biggest potential risk. I assumed another severity of the risk. Ironically I thought that it would happen kind of suddenly because a Country like Brazil or whatever would have some currency issue and then a sudden influx  of masses. Then first thing that would happen is that it clogges up and all those new users who didn't have a clue as they just fled into the thing, had all their money "stuck" and bad press and whatnot. Ironically it seems to just be chocking on a organic growth. That's so sad. I am not as pessimistic as it sounds but it still makes me kind of sad. The value (not only monetarily) is drectly correlated to how secure, how usable, how affordable and how accepted this is. Scalability is an multipler for all of these other factors.

 

7 hours ago, Eddy said:

I still get spanked by the "Giant in the Moutain" if I am not paying attention or have poor spell placement.  I keep trying.

Go for it!

7 hours ago, Eddy said:

A damn cigarette is .35 so the price structure is not unreasonable.

 

I think it it is too expensive. I am not saying this because I can't afford it. But because this kind of game, is something adults and kids love, the potential userbase (even without using blockchain cards) is huge. However, the gems run out quickly and in order to get hooked or "addicted" to a game you need to be able to play it a lot, almost unlimited (not that I would personally allow my kids to play unlimited ;-)). The game is very hard without using block chain cards I think. The game has to be kind of balanced for sure, also for players with bc cards. Not being able to play and try levels over and over is very frustrating however and will drive people away! Sure you want people to pay for e.g. those cards packages and bc cards and other stuff and also with adds (if it works reliably).

Seriously, 2 gems don't actually last longer than a cigarette.

8 hours ago, Eddy said:

I am trying to compute the play time to make a blockchain card and figure out if I were a young adult without a big bankroll how to turn this to my advantage.  I think running a GPU mine on my gaming machine at night would net maybe a few bucks a day.

That is actually a brilliant idea and I congratulate you for doing this role-play. As I mentioned above, I think they could be more generous with stamina and drop the refill to e.g. 1 gem. I love the idea however, that EDS should partner with a service, like e.g. the one you are using to mine, in order to receive gems or bitcrystals. It also confused the shit out of me in the beginning. I also thing these should beexchangeable, at least unidirektional which should be allowed. I think the app stores have issues if you allow to buy tokens that you can use elsewhere or trade. I think they have no issue if there are other means to quire that same token.

8 hours ago, Eddy said:

Wow, there is a lot behind SoG.  Part of what the forum is for is for us to share our feelings and insight as it relates to what we are doing here.  That, my friend, is a pretty broad brush.

<3

8 hours ago, Eddy said:

There is one kind of troublesome issue with not getting paid 5 stamina after watching a video (advertisement.)

I think they know and it seems to be only on android. iOS was fixed, I think they stated. I have it too. I think it's something with the add provider as he is supposed to give the signal which triggers the stamina. Probably part of why I also think they are to stingy with the stamina. I watched dozens of stupid adds without getting the reward. Get it fixed or give us gems. PROTEST!

Another way to fix this stamina problem would be to increase the amount of adds (if it works that is)

8 hours ago, Eddy said:

I was thinking about recommending that people who are active in testing and debugging be given a option for enabling the log.  We could keep a clip of the activity in a log before leaving the game for ad and upon return.

I work in that field. Medical devices/diagnostics. Highly regulated with corresponding quality standards. Got a team, two test managers several testers. Know how to use issue tracking tools and such. Would love to file a proper defect / change request, attach log from time to time. I see more stuff in the game that I find strange than I dare to write in the suggestions board. Small movement glitches and stuff, like e.g. that when you hit an enemy dead and his ghost, which can actually pass through other enemies and hit an object behind them non the less. If this object is spikes, it will cause damage still. Or if a ball is sucked in by a moving black hole, his halo stays where it is and is left behind. Black holes will suck in light too when close enough ;-) Don't know just looks a bit weird. Double gold (display bug) is still there, at least in a variant I just reproduced.

8 hours ago, Eddy said:

I hope it is us against the machine not us going head to head, because I suck.  But yea, my bet would be that a multiplayer choice is not, as my electrician says, "a far away story."

 

Multiplayer will be key. However, I hope the opposite. I hope to play against others. Although I would certainly play together with others also. Different formats would be possible, sure. Please guys, show us a screenshot, give us a faintest idea how this multiplayer mode is going to feel.

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On 5/10/2017 at 11:44 AM, Eddy said:

I have been trying to figure out how to make Bitcrystals playing SoG.

One way is to set up your computer to mine bitcoin (article on this later) convert to bitcrystal and buy cards offered for sale at the market in the Book of Orbs.  These can be later sold at a profit as the price of bitcristal increases over time or of course the demand rises because more people know about and play SoG.  It will happen!

Now we can also become a player or partner if someone wants to sell their spot.  This gives access to new cards and the ability to set up an on line store, if you buy the cards too.  There is a note about this in the forum but I don't have the link at my fingertips. (see below) It is a good write up from @Seb_degraff

I understood that we could work in game to build, craft, fuse in game cards into Blockchain cards which can be posted on the Book of Orbs for sale.  OMG - this is a lot of work.  Now I know why cards are so expensive.  I think this is correct and reasonable because it takes a lot of cpu cycles and hours of game play to make a blockchain card.

From what I can tell not all cards can be quad fused.  I was working on this one (for fun and to learn)

591339bee05ea_FusedShipBuilder.png.4db92da8d96cdf9a948b3a2c859c9073.png

He started as a ship builder but changed professions, never mind that for now.  The message on the card is: "Card is at maximum level and evolution."  Aww spent a lot of time and crystals building this guy. 

So maybe not all cards can be quad fused.  Is there a rule? 

We see from research that it can be done.

quadfused.png.559e28acff5608812518363c3da8193e.png

I have been working on a 'Life Fruits Grower', great card to have on the team, but it is a lot of work.  Right now I am saving to level +120

then I will need to do the same for three more of these if and when I get them.

lifefruitsgrower.thumb.png.ad24e3830b0fb85ab3b78d7fd643d348.png

Help me with the math  (5+15+30+60+120) * 4 = 920 plus more once we get to the top (I presume like another 230)

Say it becomes blockchainized at the 920.  Today BCY is .4 USD so we are looking at a $368 USD card.  Wow.  Presuming someone is willing to buy this card.  and

Provided we could get four of these to fuse (rare? Epic? Legendary?) not going to happen any time soon.  We need to be able to buy/trade regular in game cards too.

Lets just say for example that my level 17 is 27 stamina.  I get to play against 'The Prince of Ice' (6) or 'The Purple Dragon' (7) four times.  Maybe I pick up a little over 100 each game.  One new random card per game.  If we are lucky we get a rare (that we already have duplicates of can crystalize 1/5 so lets estimate 4 regular and 1 rare or about 11 crystals per stamina fillup.  I think the clock allows refresh about 1 in ten minutes or maybe 6 an hour (not got this quite figured out yet)  I can get full up maybe 4-6 times a day.  Being optimistic lets say 5 * 11 or 55 crystals a day.  Okay there are opportunities to watch videos and pick up 5 more stamina once in a while.  Lets say +11 crystals for watching the advertisements (some of which are kind of interesting actually.)

Back to the numbers 920 crystals for a quad fused card / (55 crystals per day + bonus 11) = 13.939393939393...  Call it two weeks.

Yes this is guess work and estimation on my part.  Two weeks of solid play not wasting any stamina for a blockchainized card.  Humm, $184 a week $26 USD a day.  Take in to consideration that we are not playing 24/7 but maybe 5-10 minutes every three or four hours that is not bad something like $3 an hour while playing.  Hey, what can you say about being paid to play?

Which cards are eligible to become blockchain cards?  Is there a way to tell in advance? Or is that part of the fun of playing SoG?

To put it another way, which cards can be quad fused?

I know the numbers are messy and I may just be confused about how this works.  Please don't quote me on any of this, I've just been thinking and wondering. 

Okay I am going back in game.  At least having to wait for stamina to rebuild gives us a chance to do other things, chores, eat, sleep, etc.  I say if you do your work you get to play.  I use SoG as a reward for getting other things done.  Now? Git back to work.   

Peace

 

Love that healer card btw, I have him dual fused and leveled up and he heals all for 7, attacks for 3 and has some crazy HP at around 22 or 23 hp lol.  Definately obe of the most valuable cards I have....now if I could just get ONE more Aodh card so I could dual fuse that possible monster of a sunder armor card....or one more card merchant....then Id have a quad fuse epic too.  /drool

also, that dog tamer...had one once myself...is considered a quad fused isnt it?  It takes the same amount of card copies as the legendary healer card we both are working on right?  I dont think any in game cards can be blockchaninized yet, blockchain cards have extra crystals around their portraits, in game only are just gold at quad fuse.IMG_0053.thumb.PNG.27095ba44ab56020f5339294c0fcd708.PNGsee the second from left card at the top in my storage.  It has little crystals around it indicating its a blockchain.  Its the free post launch once sent to your BoO if you linked accounts etc.  anyway, I may just be saying things you're already aware of, if so my bad 🤓

Edited by Tychaeus

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14 hours ago, BenRPG said:

 

Would never.

Welcome down the rabbit hole. I read about this since 2011 and I think I do understand things. However others things I totally don't. The more I know the further this universe expands.

Love it.

Problem seems that there are too many. Maybe even too many good ones. I talked to another guy at a bitcoin meetup about the block size. He told me that he is for 1mb limit and that otherwise bitcoiners like him (and me) would no longer run their full nodes cause of ram and HD requirements. This might be true. I think that

a. Bitcoin would be doomed and would not exist any more if it was solely based on people doing good deeds.

b. The incentives within the hole system are set so well, that we can have no limit at all. I am not a bitcoin tech and I am not vouching for this as the solution to this debate, but I believe it. There will be a trade off in the magic triangle between fee total, size and network latency. I also understand that this in a way means, that the solo miner behind a 56k modem in Kapkupistan will not be able to fairly participate. As a miner without own node it doesn't matter. This thing is getting professionalized. It hurts to say, that when I looked at bitcoin way back from just after its total infancy I always considered scaling the biggest potential risk. I assumed another severity of the risk. Ironically I thought that it would happen kind of suddenly because a Country like Brazil or whatever would have some currency issue and then a sudden influx  of masses. Then first thing that would happen is that it clogges up and all those new users who didn't have a clue as they just fled into the thing, had all their money "stuck" and bad press and whatnot. Ironically it seems to just be chocking on a organic growth. That's so sad. I am not as pessimistic as it sounds but it still makes me kind of sad. The value (not only monetarily) is drectly correlated to how secure, how usable, how affordable and how accepted this is. Scalability is an multipler for all of these other factors.

 

Go for it!

 

I think it it is too expensive. I am not saying this because I can't afford it. But because this kind of game, is something adults and kids love, the potential userbase (even without using blockchain cards) is huge. However, the gems run out quickly and in order to get hooked or "addicted" to a game you need to be able to play it a lot, almost unlimited (not that I would personally allow my kids to play unlimited ;-)). The game is very hard without using block chain cards I think. The game has to be kind of balanced for sure, also for players with bc cards. Not being able to play and try levels over and over is very frustrating however and will drive people away! Sure you want people to pay for e.g. those cards packages and bc cards and other stuff and also with adds (if it works reliably).

Seriously, 2 gems don't actually last longer than a cigarette.

That is actually a brilliant idea and I congratulate you for doing this role-play. As I mentioned above, I think they could be more generous with stamina and drop the refill to e.g. 1 gem. I love the idea however, that EDS should partner with a service, like e.g. the one you are using to mine, in order to receive gems or bitcrystals. It also confused the shit out of me in the beginning. I also thing these should beexchangeable, at least unidirektional which should be allowed. I think the app stores have issues if you allow to buy tokens that you can use elsewhere or trade. I think they have no issue if there are other means to quire that same token.

<3

I think they know and it seems to be only on android. iOS was fixed, I think they stated. I have it too. I think it's something with the add provider as he is supposed to give the signal which triggers the stamina. Probably part of why I also think they are to stingy with the stamina. I watched dozens of stupid adds without getting the reward. Get it fixed or give us gems. PROTEST!

Another way to fix this stamina problem would be to increase the amount of adds (if it works that is)

I work in that field. Medical devices/diagnostics. Highly regulated with corresponding quality standards. Got a team, two test managers several testers. Know how to use issue tracking tools and such. Would love to file a proper defect / change request, attach log from time to time. I see more stuff in the game that I find strange than I dare to write in the suggestions board. Small movement glitches and stuff, like e.g. that when you hit an enemy dead and his ghost, which can actually pass through other enemies and hit an object behind them non the less. If this object is spikes, it will cause damage still. Or if a ball is sucked in by a moving black hole, his halo stays where it is and is left behind. Black holes will suck in light too when close enough ;-) Don't know just looks a bit weird. Double gold (display bug) is still there, at least in a variant I just reproduced.

 

Multiplayer will be key. However, I hope the opposite. I hope to play against others. Although I would certainly play together with others also. Different formats would be possible, sure. Please guys, show us a screenshot, give us a faintest idea how this multiplayer mode is going to feel.

Inam definately partial to co op, but some mobile games have done pvp so well abd made it addictive enough for me to get into...like Space Wolf 40k for example.  I would definately be into it here,  I would play any formats and events they add lol.

also, another possible bug im unsure of currently is when you hit a sunder armor spell icon sometimes and maybe its too close to the enemy its cast upon...and your speed is high...you do not get the extra damage during that turn even though your strike hit them after the spell hit them.  Anyone know if thats just intended or a bug?  Hate when it happens on an enemy that has their turn next because it basically negates the buff/deativates it when they attack.

Edited by Tychaeus

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15 hours ago, BenRPG said:

The game is very hard without using block chain cards I think. The game has to be kind of balanced for sure, also for players with bc cards. Not being able to play and try levels over and over is very frustrating however and will drive people away!

Nope, not true, I am using strictly in game cards.  I am using one quad fused rare, a dual fused epic, and two legendaries one of which is dual fused and the other not yet...sometimes I switch him out for a dual fused epic.  They are all fully leveled (with the elemental crystals I mean...regardless of current fusion status) and types/spells pretty balanced with extra str, two high number sunder armor (one sometimes replaced with the ice one that increases the enemy turn wait), and finally my heal all legendary Falcon Trainer I think hes called.  This just took ALOT of 10 card summons lol, and completing the achievements for extra elemental crystals and premium currencies...plus spending money on premium currency to keep farming the 3 star Sia and Hill Giant bosses.  I usuallu have the best results with saving 20k gold or more at a time and summoning 200-230 cards at a time.  This morning I did a 160 card summon and actually it was the best draw ive had ever.  4 epics and a Legendary (merman's Trident)....which I think may be one of the most rare legendaries in game 😳  

I had another merman trident a loooong time ago....kicking bruising into my own ass now for dismantling it 😔

Anyways, can beat 3 star Sia every time all day no problem with my current deck, and farthest I can get in Challenge mode atm is the 270 gold mark which makes it BARELY worth doing over Sia.  Trying to get my deck good enough where I can get enough gold from challenge mode every time to justify it over 9 stamina and 245 g over 10 stamina and usually 200 or 220 gold :/

Edited by Tychaeus

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The blockchanizationnof in game assets is supposedly being added in future updates I believe...not currently available.  Did I already say that?  I need sleep 😳.  

Also, just saw an ios app store reviewer said he had just made $700 or so profit using BoO buying and trading blockchain cards... oh and...he said something like...in a week's time 😳.  Dunno if that is to be believed, but daaamn, I could replace my part time delivery job with that....

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@Tychaeus Sorry I meant the game is quite difficult if you want to go down the route without spending money in the appstore. I think it would be frustrating then.

 

About rarity within rarity classes. I first was under the impression that I see several rares way more than others. Same for epics  However now I think it was all just good old stochastics and distribution. At least for rares I am pretty sure now all pop up about the same over all. Is there a statement from EDS about different rarities within the classes?

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      On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 8:35 AM, Eddy said:

I hope it is us against the machine not us going head to head, because I suck.  But yea, my bet would be that a multiplayer choice is not, as my electrician says, "a far away story."

@BenRPG

Multiplayer will be key. However, I hope the opposite. I hope to play against others. Although I would certainly play together with others also. Different formats would be possible, sure. Please guys, show us a screenshot, give us a faintest idea how this multiplayer mode is going to feel.

-----

 

      On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 5:11 PM, BenRPG said:

The game is very hard without using block chain cards I think. The game has to be kind of balanced for sure, also for players with bc cards. Not being able to play and try levels over and over is very frustrating however and will drive people away!

@Tychaeus

Nope, not true, I am using strictly in game cards.  I am using one quad fused rare, a dual fused epic, and two legendries one of which is dual fused and the other not yet...

-----

SoG is actually pretty well designed (if you ask me) to challenge the new (casual) player and pro (advanced) players.  It is frustrating, at times makes me wannacry (sry couldn't resist) because I miss a couple of spell placements and loose, so sad no reward. :-(   I said earlier that I hope multiplayer supports me .vs. AI because you guys would mop the floor with my team.  I have been playing consistently in an effort to see how the random draw, boss challenges, completion of story line, etc. facilitates advancement, both in game and financially. 

I would like to find a way to encourage more people to play.  If I can identify a couple of techniques that will permit the average Joe or Joette to make some scratch.  I think it can be done.  $700 a week trading in the BoO would be exceptional right now.  When there is a very large fan base, lots of cpu cycles going into SoG I could see huge trades being made, big trades would be common and lesser (new cards and in game blockchainized) card trades would be common. 

I keep trying to relate Bitcoin to SoG in my head.  The same things are going on, market cap, trade volume, increasing visibility and fan base (investors.)  I just recently learned about mining bitcoin.  Wow, first time in my life where one of my computers actually paid me back.  Dang wish I had started this years ago, if only to have the computers (kick A gaming equipment) help pay for it's self.  I have a feeling that SoG could be the same, imagine being able to play and get paid for it.  Even if it is like 25 cents or penny a stamina.  I know penny is old school.

Say a young player gets permission from the parental units to run a GPU miner at night or when at school. I'd let my young'uns do that because they are working, investing, doing business ie. trading, and saving/collecting. etc. There is a lot more here than meets the eye. It is not just the kids but if we (what is it called factor? idk) work with the least common denominator then everyone wins.  Growth will happen, in English, French and Japanese.  It is a global market now days, my friends.  Give the crowds incentive and I suspect we will see a ground swell.  Bitcoin thing, rising tide lifts all boats.  Cryptocurrancy in general is happening right now.  Gaming is a wave behind but coming on fast.

Anyhow, a couple of high end SLI cards can can make $8 or $9+ a day.  So the player runs 2/3 while at school and sleeping.  Or for the working class hero while at work or sleeping.  Humm, more math - see SoG teaches us to use our brain too. Call it $5 or $6 at the current rates. X30 days in a month and voila we have between $150 and $180 to work with.  Realistically less but you get the idea.  How much does a card cost?  Yes some are very expensive and 3 months of work would not get one very far.  This is why I would like to see more everyday trading.

(It was mentioned earlier that made me think that we could mine and get paid in bitcrystals BCY) Great idea SoG pool, hum BoOpool we provide a service & get paid, play & get paid, sell & get paid ... you get the idea.  It adds up and given the amount of under utilized equipment out there the games 'market cap' would go nuts.  One old saying I always liked, when I worked as a programmer/computer specialist/management .. is:

"700 monkeys typing for 700 years can recreate the works of William Shakespeare."

This was always a great comfort when chasing defects because if we keep spanking the keyboard eventually a solution will present itself.  And one would hope we are a little smarter than a bunch of monkeys.  What we need is more bodies, more people playing, more game time ... more more more - pronounced mo mo mo.  I know preaching to the choir.

oh. one more thing before my (yes evil) cigarette break.  For some reason I equated in game crystals with BCY.  I was so excited to get rare etc because I imagined making enough in game to pay for the snogger.  Ha, silly I know.  I dreamed that at higher levels I could start smoking fancy cigars.  Or what ever my fancy was, you know pick your poison kind of thing.  It was fun to imagine when BCY were at .15 USD what is it now?  .40 last time I checked.  lol yea, everyone into the pool. Or in train speak "ALL ABORD!"

The designers and SoG game developers did a pretty good job with stamina.  I usually get to play at least one game during my break, more if I am trying to get a daily quest and hanging out with the "Sylvan Elf" (just to win a game with a specific color card on my team) maximize reward, strategize, ... get gold.  I get to take a break, get up, go out and make bank.  ha ha not making bank yet but who knows what tomorrow will bring. 

SOG to the Moon. 

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Just wanted to show off my all in game cards deck.  I am still trying to get at least 1 more Apprentice of Aodh, hes still pretty ok at this point.IMG_0064.thumb.PNG.e74d81e02128426c96f12b6bbb68c916.PNGright now saving up till I hit 30k gold and draw 300 cards at once lol...seems to add more luck to the draw the more I draw at a time....plus its just fun 😜

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2 hours ago, Tychaeus said:

right now saving up till I hit 30k gold and draw 300 cards at once lol...seems to add more luck to the draw the more I draw at a time

I think you are the second person stating that they think they get better pulls from drawing lots at a time. I think I don't share that experience.

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Its kinda hit and miss.  I have absolutely pulled 100 cards in a sitting and they were basically all crap, but then the next time after that pulled 150 at once and got good results.  There may be nothing substantive to my process at all, but it just is fun to me and indulges my compusivity with these kinds of games.

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nice deck Tychaeus! I think you have really good pulls with the gold. I have had only one legendary pull from gold and a couple of epics and that's all.

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Thank ya!  You and I keep fighting for 3rd place don't we 👽?  Here is the epics I got from my 300 card draw today....gotta draw a lot of shite before you see some good.  Unfortunately, I didnt get the epics I was looking for, but did get some worth being viable in the future possibly.IMG_0065.thumb.PNG.3fc8b25edfd07bd1996813de5d675601.PNGtop far right (two of them in same draw and dual fused), middle far right, bottom far left, and one other epic beetle creature I already dismantled.  Not bad, but I am honestly surprised not a one Legendary in 300 card draws.  Course I have drawn two Legendary in the past week so...maybe in thw next 200-250 draws 🤓  Plus I completed two achievements today and both have free random card rewards next achievement completed.  One for an epic and the other for Legendary, which will be the second time or third...can't recall, that I got some epic and Legendary as achievement/quest rewards.  In fact I am almost completely done with the elemental crystals achievement...pretty sure I am the last star and the last piece of that star.  Also, 5-6 more dailies and free 10 premium currency!  Ima hit the jackpot in the next week or so lol.  Can't wait.

Edited by Tychaeus

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So here's my achievemeny progress so far.

IMG_0066.PNG

IMG_0067.PNG

IMG_0068.PNG

IMG_0069.PNG

Anyone know why the completion descriptions are wrong?  Like..."get 10 fusions," but the requirement is actually 40?  Or 15 elemental crystals....but actually 3000 lol?

Edited by Tychaeus
Added question about images

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hahaa I guess the 3rd place thing would have more meaning if it entail receiving a prize but yea I'm just trying to farm gold at the moment and I mainly play challenges as I prefer the gold ratio there. EXP seems to be better at the story stages though! 

The game has been very fun for me, I just wish that there was a guild or more communication between players to build a closer community for everyone!

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4 hours ago, Tychaeus said:

So here's my achievemeny progress so far.

IMG_0066.PNG

IMG_0067.PNG

IMG_0068.PNG

IMG_0069.PNG

Anyone know why the completion descriptions are wrong?  Like..."get 10 fusions," but the requirement is actually 40?  Or 15 elemental crystals....but actually 3000 lol?

Hi @Tychaeus,

Yes, I put in change requests / bug reports for the issue you mentioned.  The sentences should read ..... denominator ....  whatever that value happens to be.  I suspect we will see this fixed in the next release.

 

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